美国总统候选人布什与克里第二场电视辩论.doc

美国总统候选人布什与克里第二场电视辩论 dvnews_pageTheSecondBush-KerryPresidentialDebate美国东部时间8日晚，美国总统候选人布什与克里在密苏里州圣路易的华盛顿大学(WASHINGTONUNIVERSITY,ST.LOUIS,MIOURI)举行了第二场电视辩论，辩论内容集中在伊战、减税、就业和医疗等方面。民调显示布什在首场辩论中不敌克里，所以本次辩论对布什意义重大。EAKERS:GEORGEW.BUSH,PRESIDENTOFTHEUNITEDSTATESU.S.SENATORJOHNF.KERRY(MA),DEMOCRATICPRESIDENTIALNOMINEECHARLESGION,ABCANCHORGION:GoodeveningfromtheFieldHouseatWashingtonUniversityinSt.Louis.ImCharlesGionofABewsandGoodMorningAmerica.IweleyoutothesecondofthexxpresidentialdebatesbetweenPresidentGeorgeW.Bush,theRepublicannominee,andSenatorJohnKerry,theDemocratiominee.ThedebatesareooredbytheCommiiononPresidentialDebates.Tonightsformatisgoingtobeabitdifferent.Wehaveaembledatown-hallmeeting.WereintheShow-MeState,aseveryoneknowsMiouritobe,soMiouriresidentswillaskthequestio.These140citizewereidentifiedbytheGallupOrganizationasnotyetmittedinthiselection.Now,earliertoday,eachaudiencemembergavemetwoquestiooncardslikethis,oheydliketoaskthepresident,theothertheydliketoaskthesenator.Ihaveselectedthequestiotobeaskedandtheorder.Noonehasseenthefinallistofquestiobutme,certainlynotthecandidates.Noaudiencememberknowsifheorshewillbecalledupon.Audiencemicrophoneswillbeturnedoffafteraquestionisasked.Audiencememberswilladdretheirquestiontoaecifiandidate.Hellhavetwominutestoawer.Theothercandidatewillhaveaminuteandahalfforrebuttal.AndIhavetheoptionofextendingdiscuionforoneminute,tobedividedequallybetweenthetwomen.Allsubjectsareopenfordiscuion.Andyouprobablyknowthelightsystembynow.Greenlightat30seconds,yellowat15,redatfive,andflashingredmeayouredone.Thosearethecandidatesrules.Iwillholdthecandidatestothetimelimitsforcefullybutpolitely,Ihope.Andnow,pleasejoinmeinwelingwithgreatreect,PresidentBushandSenatorKerry.(ALAUSE)Gentlemen,tothebusineathand.ThefirstquestionisforSenatorKerry,anditwillefromCherylOtis,whoisrightbehindme.OTIS:SenatorKerry,aftertalkingwithseveralco-workersandfamilyandfriends,Iaskedtheoneswhosaidtheywerenotvotingforyou,Why?Theysaidthatyouweretoowishy-washy.Doyouhaveareplyforthem?KERRY:Yes,Icertainlydo.(LAUGHTER)Butletmejustfirst,Cheryl,ifyouwill,IwanttothankCharlieformoderating.IwanttothankWashingtonUniversityforhostingusherethisevening.Mr.President,itsgoodtobewithyouagainthisevening,sir.Cheryl,thepresidentdidntfindweapoofmadestructioninIraq,sohesreallyturnedhiscampaignintoaweaponofmadeception.AndtheresultisthatyouvebeenbombardedwithadvertisementssuggestingthatIvechangedapositiononthisorthatortheother.Now,thethreethingstheytrytosayIvechangedpositiononarethePatriotAct;Ihavent.Isuortit.IjustdontlikethewayJohnAshcrofthasaliedit,andweregoingtochangeafewthings.ThechairmanoftheRepublicanPartythinksweoughttochangeafewthings.NoChildLeftBehindAct,Ivotedforit.Isuortit.Isuortthegoals.Butthepresidenthasunderfundeditby$28billion.RighthereinSt.Louis,youvelaidoff350teachers.Youre150-excuseme,Ithinkitsalittlemore,about$100millionshyofwhatyououghttobeundertheNoChildLeftBehindActtohelpyoureducationsystemhere.SoIplainaboutthat.Ivearguedthatweshouldfullyfundedit.ThepresidentsaysIvechangedmymind.Ihaventchangedmymind:Imgoingtofullyfundit.Sothesearethedifferences.Now,thepresidenthaspresidedoveraneconomywherewevelost1.6millionjo.Thefirstpresidentin72yearstolosejo.Ihaveaplantoputpeoplebacktowork.Thatsnotwishy-washy.Imgoingtoclosetheloopholesthatactuallyencouragepaniestogooverseas.Thepresidentwantstokeepthemopen.IthinkImright.Ithinkheswrong.Imgoingtogiveyouataxcut.Thepresidentgavethetop1percentofine-earnersinAmerica,got$89billionlastyear,morethanthe80percentofpeoplewhoearn$100,000orleallputtogether.Ithinkthatswrong.Thatsnotwishy-washy,andthatswhatImfightingfor,you.GION:Mr.President,aminuteandahalf.BUSH:Charlie,thankyou,andthankourpanelists.And,Senator,thankyou.Ican-andthanks,WashingtonU.aswell.Icanseewhypeopleatyourworkplacethinkhechangespositioalot,becausehedoes.Hesaidhevotedforthe$87billion,andvotedagaititrightbeforehevotedforit.Andthatsendsaconfusingsignaltopeople.HesaidhethoughtSaddamHueinwasagravethreat,andnowhesaiditwasamistaketoremoveSaddamHueinfrompower.No,Icanseewhypeoplethinkthathechangespositionquiteoften,becausehedoes.Youknow,forawhilehewasastrongsuorterofgettingridofSaddamHuein.Hesawthewisdom-untiltheDemocratprimarycamealongandHowardDean,theanti-warcandidate,begantogainonhim,andhechangedpositio.Idontseehowyoucanleadthiscountryinatimeofwar,inatimeofuncertainty,ifyouchangeyourmindbecauseofpolitics.Hejustbroughtupthetaxcut.Yourememberweincreasedthatchildcreditby$1,000,reducedthemarriagepenalty,createda10percenttaxbracketforthelower-ineAmerica.Thatsrightatthemiddlecla.Hevotedagaitit.Andyethetellsyouhesforamiddle-clataxcut.Its-youvegottobecoistentwhenyourethepresident.Theresalotofpreures.Andyouvegottobefirmandcoistent.GION:Mr.President,Iwouldfollowup,butwehaveaseriesofquestioonIraq,andsoIwillturntothenextquestioner.ThequestionisforPresidentBush,andthequestionerisRobinDahle.DAHLE:Mr.President,yesterdayinastatementyouadmittedthatIraqdidnothaveweapoofmadestruction,butjustifiedtheinvasionbystating,Iquote,Heretainedtheknowledge,thematerials,themeaandtheintenttoproduceweapoofmadestructionandcouldhavepaedthisknowledgetoourterroristenemies.Doyousincerelybelievethistobeareasonablejustificationforinvasionwhenthisstatementaliestosomanyothercountries,includingNorthKorea?BUSH:Eachsituationisdifferent,Robin.Andobviouslywehopethatdiplomacyworksbeforeyoueveruseforce.Thehardestdecisionapresidentmakesisevertouseforce.After9/11,wehadtolookattheworlddifferently.After9/11,wehadtorecognizethatwhenwesawathreat,wemusttakeitseriouslybeforeitestohurtus.Intheolddayswedseeathreat,andwecoulddealwithitifwefeltlikeitornot.But9/11changeditall.IvowedtoourcountrymenthatIwoulddoeverythingIcouldtoprotecttheAmericanpeople.ThatswhywerebringingAlQaidatojustice.Seventyfivepercentofthemhavebeenbroughttojustice.ThatswhyIsaidtoAfghanistan:Ifyouharboraterrorist,yourejustasguiltyastheterrorist.AndtheTalibanisnolongerinpower,andAlQaidanolongerhasaplacetoplan.AndIsawauniquethreatinSaddamHuein,asdidmyoonent,becausewethoughthehadweapoofmadestruction.AndtheuniquethreatwasthathecouldgiveweapoofmadestructiontoanorganizationlikeAlQaida,andtheharmtheyinflictedonuswithairplaneswouldbemultipliedgreatlybyweapoofmadestruction.Andthatwastheserious,seriousthreat.SoItrieddiplomacy,wenttotheUnitedNatio.ButaswelearnedinthesamereportIquoted,SaddamHueinwasgamingtheoil-for-foodprogramtogetridofsanctio.Hewastryingtogetridofsanctioforareason:Hewantedtorestarthisweapoprograms.Weallthoughttherewasweapothere,Robin.Myoonentthoughttherewasweapothere.Thatswhyhecalledhimagravethreat.Iwathaywhenwefoundouttherewatweapo,andwevegotanintelligencegrouptogethertofigureoutwhy.ButSaddamHueinwasauniquethreat.Andtheworldisbetteroffwithouthiminpower.AndmyoonentsplaleadmetoconcludethatSaddamHueinwouldstillbeinpower,andtheworldwouldbemoredangerous.Thankyou,sir.GION:SenatorKerry,aminuteandahalf.KERRY:Robin,Imgoingtoaweryourquestion.Imalsogoingtotalk-reondtowhatyouasked,Cheryl,atthesametime.Theworldismoredangeroustoday.Theworldismoredangeroustodaybecausethepresidentdidntmaketherightjudgments.Now,thepresidentwishesthatIhadchangedmymind.HewantsyoutobelievethatbecausehecantehereandtellyouthathescreatednewjoforAmerica.Heslostjo.HecantehereandtellyouthathescreatedhealthcareforAmericabecause,what,wevegot5millionAmericawhohavelosttheirhealthcare,96,000ofthemrighthereinMiouri.Hecantehereandtellyouthathesleftnochildbehindbecausehedidntfundnochildleftbehind.Sowhatdoeshedo?Hestryingtoattackme.HewantsyoutobelievethatIcantbepresident.AndhestryingtomakeyoubelieveitbecausehewantsyoutothinkIchangemymind.Well,letmetellyoustraightup:IveneverchangedmymindaboutIraq.IdobelieveSaddamHueinwasathreat.Ialwaysbelievedhewasathreat.Believeditin1998whenClintonwaspresident.IwantedtogiveClintonthepowertouseforceifneceary.ButIwouldhaveusedthatforcewisely,Iwouldhaveusedthatauthoritywisely,notrushedtowarwithoutaplantowinthepeace.Iwouldhavebroughtouralliestoourside.Iwouldhavefoughttomakecertainourtroohadeverybodypoibletohelpthemwinthemiion.Thispresidentrushedtowar,pushedouralliesaside.AndIrannowismoredangerous,andsoisNorthKorea,withnuclearweapo.Hetookhiseyeofftheball,offofOsamabinLaden.GION:Mr.President,Idowanttofollowuponthisone,becausetherewereseveralquestiofromtheaudiencealongthisline.BUSH:(OFF-MIKE)GION:Goahead.Goahead.(CROTALK)GION:Well,Iwasgoingtohaveyoudotherebuttalonit,butyougoahead.(LAUGHTER)Youreup.BUSH:Yourememberthelastdebate?MyoonentsaidthatAmericamustpaaglobaltestbeforeweusedforcetoprotectourselves.Thatsthekindofmindsetthatsayssanctiowereworking.Thatsthekindofmindsetthatsaid,LetskeepitattheUnitedNatioandhopethingsgowell.SaddamHueinwasathreatbecausehecouldhavegivenweapoofmadestructiontoterroristenemies.Sanctiowerenotworking.TheUnitedNatiowasnoteffectiveatremovingSaddamHuein.GION:Senator?KERRY:ThegoalofthesanctiowasnottoremoveSaddamHuein,itwastoremovetheweapoofmadestruction.And,Mr.President,justyesterdaytheDuelferreporttoldyouandthewholeworldtheyworked.Hedidnthaveweapoofmadestruction,Mr.President.Thatwastheobjective.Andifwedusedsmartdiplomacy,wecouldhavesaved$200billionandaninvasionofIraq.Andrightnow,OsamabinLadenmightbeinjailordead.Thatsthewaragaitterror.GION:WeregoingtohaveanotherquestionnowonthesubjectofIraq.AndImgoingtoturntoAnthonyBaldiwithaquestionforSenatorKerry.Mr.Baldi?BALDI:SenatorKerry,theU.S.ispreparinganewIraqgovernmentandwillproceedtowithdrawU.S.troo.WouldyouproceedwiththesameplaasPresidentBush?KERRY:Anthony,Iwouldnot.Ihavelaidoutadifferentplan,becausethepresidentsplanisnotworking.Youseethateverynightontelevision.ThereschaosinIraq.KingAbdullahofJordansaidjustyesterdayorthedaybeforeyoucantholdelectioinIraqwiththechaosthatsgoingontoday.SenatorRichardLugar,theRepublicanchairmanoftheForeignRelatioCommittee,saidthatthehandlingoftherecotructionaidinIraqbythisadministrationhasbeeninpetent.ThosearetheRepublicanchairmanswords.SenatorHagelofNebraskasaidthatthehandlingofIraqisbeyondpitiful,beyondembarraing;itsinthezoneofdangerous.ThosearethewordsoftwoRepublica,reected,bothontheForeignRelatioCommittee.Now,Ihavetotellyou,Iwoulddosomethingdifferent.Iwouldreachouttoouralliesinawaythatthispresidenthat.Hepushedthemawaytimeandagain,pushedthemawayattheU.N.,pushedthemawayindividually.Twoweeksago,therewasameetingoftheNorthAtlanticCouncil,whichisthepoliticalarmofNATO.TheydiscuedthepoibilityofasmalltrainingunitorhavingatotaltakeoverofthetraininginIraq.DidouradministrationpushforthetotaltrainingofIraq?No.Weretheysilent?Yes.Wasthereanefforttobringallthealliestogetheraroundthat?No,becausetheyvealwayswantedthistobeanAmericaneffort.Youknow,theyevenhadtheDefeeDepartmentiueamemorandumsaying,Dontbotheralyingforaistanceorforbeingpartoftherecotructionifyouwerentpartofouroriginalcoalition.Now,thatsnotagoodwaytobuildsuortandreducetheriskforourtrooandmakeAmericasafer.Imgoingtogetthetrainingdoneforourtroo.ImgoingtogetthetrainingofIraqisdonefaster.AndImgoingtogetouralliesbacktothetable.BUSH:TwodaysagointheOvalOffice,ImetwiththefinanceministerfromIraq.Hecametoseeme.Andhetalkedabouthowoptimistichewasandthecountrywasaboutheadingtowardelectio.Thinkaboutit:Theyregoingfromtyraytoelectio.Hetalkedabouttherecotructioneffortsthatarebegiingtotakehold.HetalkedaboutthefactthatIraqislovetobefree.Hesaidhewasoptimisticwhenhecamehere,thenheturnedontheTVandlistenedtothepoliticalrhetoricandallofasuddenhewaspeimistic.Now,thisisguyawho,alongwithothers,hastakengreatriskforgreatfreedom.Andweneedtostandwithhim.Myoonentsayshehasaplaitsoundsfamiliar,becauseitscalledtheBushplan.Weregoingtotraintroo,andweare.Wellhave125,000trainedbytheendofDecember.Wereendingabout$7billion.Hetalksaboutagrandidea:Letshaveasummit;weregoingtosolvetheprobleminIraqbyholdingasummit.Andwhatishegoingtosaytothosepeoplethatshowupatthesummit?Joinmeinthewrongwaratthewrongtimeatthewrongplace.Riskyourtrooinawaryouvecalledamistake.Nobodyisgoingtofollowsomebodywhodoetbelievewecansueedandwithsomebodywhosaysthatwarwhereweareisamistake.Iknowhowthesepeoplethink.Imeetwiththemallthetime.ItalktoTonyBlairallthetime.ItalktoSilvioBerlusconi.TheyrenotgoingtofollowanAmericanpresidentwhosaysfollowmeintoamistake.Ourplanisworking.Weregoingtomakeelectio.AndIraqisgoingtobefree,andAmericawillbebetteroffforit.GION:Doyouwanttofollowup,Senator?KERRY:Yes,sir,please.Ladiesandgentlemen,therightwarwasOsamabinLadenandAfghanistan.Thatwastherightplace.AndtherighttimewasToraBora,whenwehadhimcorneredinthemountai.Now,everyoneintheworldknowsthattherewerenoweapoofmadestruction.ThatwasthereasonCongregavehimtheauthoritytouseforce,notafterexcusetogetridoftheregime.Nowwehavetosueed.Ivealwayssaidthat.Ihavebeencoistent.Yes,wehavetosueed,andIhaveabetterplantohelpusdoit.BUSH:Firstofall,wedidntfindouthedidnthaveweapountilwegotthere,andmyoonentthoughthehadweapoandtoldeverybodyhethoughthehadweapo.Andsecondly,itsafundamentalmisunderstandingtosaythatthewaronterrorisonlyOsamabinLaden.Thewaronterroristomakesurethattheseterroristorganizatiodonotendupwithweapoofmadestruction.Thatswhatthewaronterrorisabout.Ofcourse,weregoingtofindOsamabinLaden.Wevealready75percentofhispeople.Andwereonthehuntforhim.Butthisisaglobalconflictthatrequiresfirmresolve.GION:ThenextquestionisforPresidentBush,anditesfromNikkiWashington.WASHINGTON:Thankyou.Mr.President,mymotherandsistertraveledabroadthissummer,andwhentheygotbacktheytalkedtousabouthowshockedtheywereattheinteityofaggravationthatothercountrieshadwithhowwehandledtheIraqsituation.Diplomacyisobviouslysomethingthatwereallyhavetoreallyworkon.Whatisyourplantorepairrelatiowithothercountriesgiventhecurrentsituation?BUSH:No,Iareciatethat.I-listen,I-wevegotagreatcountry.Iloveourvalues.AndIrecognizeIvemadesomedecisiothathavecausedpeopletonotunderstandthegreatvaluesofourcountry.IrememberwhenRonaldReaganwasthepresident;hestoodonprinciple.Somebodycalledthatstuorn.HestoodonprinciplestandinguptotheSovietUnion,andwewonthatconflict.Yetatthesametime,hewasvery-wewereveryuopularinEuropebecauseofthedecisiohemade.IrecognizethattakingSaddamHueinoutwasuopular.ButImadethedecisionbecauseIthoughtitwasintherightinterestsofoursecurity.Youknow,IvemadesomedecisioonIsraelthatsuopular.IwouldntdealwithArafat,becauseIfeltlikehehadlettheformerpresidentdown,andIdontthinkhesthekindofpersonthatcanleadtowardaPalestinianstate.AndpeopleinEuropedidntlikethatdecision.Andthatwasuopular,butitwastherightthingtodo.IbelievePalestiniaoughttohaveastate,butIknowtheyneedleadershipthatsmittedtoademocracyandfreedom,leadershipthatwouldbewillingtorejectterrorism.ImadeadecisionnottojointheInternationalCriminalCourtinTheHague,whichiswhereourtroocouldbebroughtto-broughtinfrontofajudge,anunaountedjudge.Idontthinkweoughttojointhat.Thatwasuopular.Andso,whatImtellingyouis,isthatsometimesinthisworldyoumakeuopulardecisiobecauseyouthinktheyreright.Wellcontinuetoreachout.Listen,thereis30natioinvolvedinIraq,some40natioinvolvedinAfghanistan.PeopleloveAmerica.SometimestheydontlikethedecisiomadebyAmerica,butIdontthinkyouwantapresidentwhotriestobeepopularanddoesthewrongthing.YoudontwanttojointheInternationalCriminalCourtjustbecauseitspopularincertaincapitalsinEurope.GION:SenatorKerry,aminuteandahalf.KERRY:Nikki,thatsaquestionthatsbeenraisedbyalotofpeoplearoundthecountry.Letmeaddreitbutalsotalkabouttheweapothepresidentjusttalkedabout,becauseeverypartofthepresidentsawerjustnowpromisesyoumoreofthesameoverthenextfouryears.Thepresidentstoodrighthereinthishallfouryearsago,andhewasaskedaquestionbysomebodyjustlikeyou,Underwhatcircumstanceswouldyousendpeopletowar?Andhisawerwas,Withaviableexitstrategyandonlywithenoughforcestogetthejobdone.Hedidntdothat.Hebrokethatpromise.Wedidnthaveenoughforces.GeneralShieki,theArmychiefofstaff,toldhimhewasgoingtoneedseveralhundredthousand.Andguewhat?TheyretiredGeneralShiekifortellinghimthat.Thispresidenthatlistened.IwenttomeetwiththemembersoftheSecurityCouncilintheweekbeforewevoted.IwenttoNewYork.ItalkedtoallofthemtofindouthowserioustheywereaboutreallyholdingSaddamHueinaountable.Icameawayconvincedthat,ifweworkedatit,ifwewerereadytoworkandlettingHaBlixdohisjobandthoroughlygothroughtheiectio,thatifpushcametoshove,theydbetherewithus.Butthepresidentjustarbitrarilybroughtthehammerdownandsaid,Nope.Sorry,timefordiplomacyisover.Weregoing.Herushedtowarwithoutaplantowinthepeace.Ladiesandgentleman,hegaveyouaeechandtoldyouhedplancarefully,takeeveryprecaution,takeourallieswithus.Hedidnt.Hebrokehisword.GION:Mr.President?BUSH:IremembersittingintheWhiteHouselookingatthosegenerals,saying,Doyouhavewhatyouneedinthiswar?Doyouhavewhatittakes?IremembergoingdowntothebasementoftheWhiteHousethedaywemittedourtrooaslastresort,lookingatTommyFranksandthegeneralsontheground,askingthem,Dowehavetherightplanwiththerighttrooplevel?Andtheylookedmeintheeyeandsaid,Yes,sir,Mr.President.Ofcourse,Ilistentoourgenerals.Thatswhatapresidentdoes.Apresidentsetsthestrategyandreliesupongoodmilitarypeopletoexecutethatstrategy.GION:Senator?KERRY:Yourelyongoodmilitarypeopletoexecutethemilitaryponentofthestrategy,butwiingthepeaceislargerthanjustthemilitaryponent.GeneralShiekihadthewisdomtosay,Youregoingtoneedseveralhundredthousandtrootowinthepeace.Themilitarysjobistowinthewar.Apresidentsjobistowinthepeace.Thepresidentdidnotdowhatwasneceary.Didntbringinenoughnation.Didntdeliverthehelp.Didntcloseofftheborders.Didntevenguardtheammodum.Andnowourkidsarebeingkilledwithammosrightoutofthatdump.GION:ThenextquestionisforSenatorKerry,anditesfromoverhere,fromRandeeJaco.Youllneedamicrophone.KERRY:IsitRandee?JACO:Yes,Randee.IranoorsterrorismandhasmiilescapableofhittingIsraelandsouthernEurope.Iranwillhavenuclearweapointwotothreeyearstime.IntheeventthatU.N.sanctiodontstopthisthreat,whatwillyoudoaspresident?KERRY:IdontthinkyoucanjustrelyonU.N.sanctio,Randee.Butyoureaolutelycorrect,itisathreat,itsahugethreat.Andwhatsinterestingis,itsathreatthathasgrownwhilethepresidenthasbeenpreoupiedwithIraq,wheretherewatathreat.Ifhedlettheiectorsdotheirjobandgoon,wewouldnthave10timesthenumbersofforcesinIraqthatwehaveinAfghanis