美国总统候选人布什与克里第三场电视辩论.doc

美国总统候选人布什与克里第三场电视辩论 dvnews_pageTheThirdBush-KerryPresidentialDebateOctober13,xxArizonaStateUniversityTempe,AZ美国当地时间10月13日晚上9时（北京时间14日上午9时），美国总统布什与民主党总统候选人克里在亚利桑那州立大学举行第三场电视辩论，辩论的焦点问题是美国国内问题，涉及就业、医疗、堕胎等百姓生活话题。第三次辩论由哥伦比亚广播公司(C)王牌主持人鲍勃?希弗(BOBSCHIEFFER)主持。布什与克里在进行了前两场辩论以后，支持率相当，大选进入白热化阶段。SCHIEFFER:GoodeveningfromArizonaStateUniversityinTempe,Arizona.ImBobSchiefferofews.IwanttoweleyoutothethirdandlastofthexxdebatesbetweenPresidentGeorgeBushandSenatorJohnKerry.AsJimLehrertoldyoubeforethefirstone,thesedebatesareooredbytheCommiiononPresidentialDebates.Tonightthetopicwillbedomesticaffairs,buttheformatwillbethesameasthatfirstdebate.Illmoderateourdiscuionunderdetailedrulesagreedtobythecandidates,butthequestioandtheareastobecoveredwerechosenbyme.Ihavenottoldthecandidatesoranyoneelsewhattheyare.Torefreshyourmemoryontherules,Iwillaskaquestion.Thecandidateisallowedtwominutestoawer.Hisoonentthenhasaminuteandahalftoofferarebuttal.Atmydiscretion,Icanextendthediscuionbyofferingeachcandidateanadditional30seconds.Agreenlightwilleontosignalthecandidatehas30secondsleft.Ayellowlightsignals15secondsleft.Aredlightmeafivesecondsleft.Thereisalsoabuzzer,ifitisneeded.Thecandidatesmaynotquestioneachotherdirectly.Therearenoopeningstatements,buttherewillbetwo-minuteclosingstatements.Thereisanaudienceheretonight,buttheyhaveagreedtoremainsilent,exceptforrightnow,whentheyjoinmeinwelingPresidentGeorgeBushandSenatorJohnKerry.(ALAUSE)Gentlemen,weletoyouboth.Bycointo,thefirstquestiongoestoSenatorKerry.Senator,IwanttosetthestageforthisdiscuionbyaskingthequestionthatIthinkhangsoverallofourpoliticstodayandisprobablyonthemindsofmanypeoplewatchingthisdebatetonight.Andthatis,willourchildrenandgrandchildreneverliveinaworldassafeandsecureastheworldinwhichwegrewup?KERRY:Well,firstofall,Bob,thankyouformoderatingtonight.Thankyou,ArizonaState,forwelingus.AndthankyoutothePresidentialCommiionforundertakingthisenormoustask.Wereproudtobehere.Mr.President,ImgladtobeherewithyouagaintosharesimilaritiesanddifferenceswiththeAmericanpeople.Willweeverbesafeandsecureagain?Yes.Weaolutelymustbe.Thatsthegoal.Now,howdoweachieveitisthemostcriticalponentofit.Ibelievethatthispresident,regrettably,rushedusintoawar,madedecisioaboutforeignpolicy,pushedalliancesaway.And,asaresult,Americaisnowbearingthisextraordinaryburdenwherewearenotassafeasweoughttobe.Themeasurementisnot:Arewesafer?Themeasurementis:Areweassafeasweoughttobe?Andthereareahostofoptiothatthispresidenthadavailabletohim,likemakingsurethatatallourportsinAmericacontainersareiected.Only95percentofthem-95percenteintodayuniected.Thatsnotgoodenough.Peoplewhoflyonairplanestoday,thecargoholdisnotX-rayed,butthebaggageis.Thatsnotgoodenough.Firehousesdonthaveenoughfirefightersinthem.PoliceofficersarebeingcutfromthestreetsofAmericabecausethepresidentdecidedtocuttheCOprogram.Sowecandoabetterjobofhomelandsecurity.Icandoabetterjobofwagingasmarter,moreeffectivewaronterrorandguaranteethatwewillgoaftertheterrorists.Iwillhuntthemdown,andwellkillthem,wellcapturethem.Welldowhateverisnecearytobesafe.ButIpledgethistoyou,America:IwilldoitinthewaythatFranklinRooseveltandRonaldReaganandJohnKeedyandothersdid,wherewebuildthestrongestalliances,wheretheworldjoitogether,wherewehavethebestintelligenceandwhereweareable,ultimately,tobemoresafeandsecure.SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,youhave90seconds.BUSH:Thankyouverymuch.IwanttothankArizonaStateaswell.Yes,wecanbesafeandsecure,ifwestayontheoffeeagaittheterroristsandifwereadfreedomandlibertyaroundtheworld.IhavegotapreheivestrategytonotonlychasedowntheAlQaida,whereveritexists-andweremakingprogrethree-quartersofAlQaidaleadershavebeenbroughttojustice-buttomakesurethatcountriesthatharborterroristsareheldtoaount.AsaresultofsecuringourselvesandriddingtheTalibanoutofAfghanistan,theAfghanpeoplehadelectiothisweekend.Andthefirstvoterwasa19-year-oldwoman.Thinkaboutthat.Freedomisonthemarch.WeheldtoaountaterroristregimeinSaddamHuein.Inotherwords,inordertomakesureweresecure,theremustbeapreheiveplan.Myoonentjustthisweekendtalkedabouthowterrorismcouldbereducedtoanuisance,paringittoprostitution,illegalgambling.Ithinkthatattitudeandthatpointofviewisdangerous.IdontthinkyoucansecureAmericaforthelongrunifyoudonthaveapreheiveviewastohowtodefeatthesepeople.Athome,welldoeverythingwecantoprotectthehomeland.Isignedthehomelandsecuritybilltobetteralignouraetsandresources.Myoonentvotedagaitit.Weredoingeverythingwecantoprotectourbordersandports.Butaolutelywecanbesecureinthelongrun.Itjusttakesgood,strongleadership.SCHIEFFER:Anythingtoadd,SenatorKerry?KERRY:Yes.WhenthepresidenthadanoortunitytocaptureorkillOsamabinLaden,hetookhisfocusoffofthem,outsourcedthejobtoAfghanwarlords,andOsamabinLadenescaped.SixmonthsafterhesaidOsamabinLadenmustbecaughtdeadoralive,thispresidentwasasked,WhereisOsamabinLaden?Hesaid,Idontknow.Idontreallythinkabouthimverymuch.Imnotthatconcerned.Weneedapresidentwhostaysdeadlyfocusedontherealwaronterror.SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?BUSH:Gosh,IjustdontthinkIeversaidImnotworriedaboutOsamabinLaden.Itskindofoneofthoseexaggeratio.OfcoursewereworriedaboutOsamabinLaden.WereonthehuntafterOsamabinLaden.WereusingeveryaetatourdiosaltogetOsamabinLaden.Myoonentsaidthiswarisamatterofintelligenceandlawenforcement.No,thiswarisamatterofusingeveryaetatourdiosaltokeeptheAmericanpeopleprotected.SCHIEFFER:Newquestion,Mr.President,toyou.Wearetalkingaboutprotectingourselvesfromtheunexpected,butthefluseasonissuddenlyuponus.Flukillsthousandsofpeopleeveryyear.Suddenlywefindourselveswithasevereshortageoffluvaine.Howdidthathaen?BUSH:Bob,werelieduponapanyoutofEnglandtoprovideabouthalfofthefluvainesfortheUnitedStatescitizen,anditturnedoutthatthevaiheywereproducingwascontaminated.Andsowetooktherightactionanddidntallowcontaminatedmedicineintoourcountry.WereworkingwithCanadatohopefully-thattheyllproducea-helpusrealizethevainenecearytomakesureourcitizehavegotfluvainatioduringthisupingseason.MycalltoourfellowAmericaisifyourehealthy,ifyoureyounger,dontgetaflushotthisyear.Helpusprioritizethosewhoneedtogettheflushot,theelderlyandtheyoung.TheCDC,reoibleforhealthintheUnitedStates,issettingthoseprioritiesandisallocatingthefluvaineaordingly.Ihaventgottenaflushot,andIdontintendtobecauseIwanttomakesurethosewhoaremostvulnerablegettreated.WehaveaproblemwithlitigationintheUnitedStatesofAmerica.Vainemanufacturersareworriedaboutgettingsued,andthereforetheyhavebackedofffromprovidingthiskindofvaine.OneofthereasoImsuchastrongbelieverinlegalreformissothatpeoplearentafraidofproducingaproductthatisnecearyforthehealthofourcitizeandthenendupgettingsuedinacourtoflaw.Butthebestthingwecandonow,Bob,giventhecircumstanceswiththepanyinEnglandisforthoseofuswhoareyoungerandhealthy,dontgetaflushot.SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?KERRY:ThisreallyunderscorestheproblemwiththeAmericanhealth-caresystem.ItsnotworkingfortheAmericanfamily.AnditsgottenworseunderPresidentBushoverthecourseofthelastyears.FivemillionAmericahavelosttheirhealthiuranceinthiscountry.YouvegotaboutamillionrighthereinArizona,justshy,950,000,whohavenohealthiuranceatall.82,000ArizonialosttheirhealthiuranceunderPresidentBushswatch.223,000kidsinArizonahavenohealthiuranceatall.Allacroourcountry-gotoOhio,1.4millionOhioahavenohealthiurance,114,000ofthemlostitunderPresidentBush;Wiscoin,82,000WiscoiniteslostitunderPresidentBush.ThispresidenthasturnedhisbackonthewellneofAmerica.Andthereisnosystem.Infact,itsstartingtofallapartnotbecauseoflawsuits-thoughtheyareaproblem,andJohnEdwardsandIaremittedtofixingthem-butbecauseofthelargeriuethatwedontcoverAmerica.Childrenacroourcountrydonthavehealthcare.Weretherichestcountryonthefaceofthepla,theonlyindustrializednationintheworldnottodoit.IhaveaplantocoverallAmerica.Weregoingtomakeitaffordableandaeible.Weregoingtoleteverybodybuyintothesamehealth-careplansenatorsandcongremengivethemselves.SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,wouldyouliketoaddsomething?BUSH:Iwould.Thankyou.Iwanttoremindpeoplelisteningtonightthataplanisnotalitanyofplaints,andaplanisnottolayoutprogramsthatyoucantpayfor.Hejustsaidhewantseverybodytobeabletobuyintothesameplanthatsenatorsandcongremenget.Thatcoststhegovernment$7,700perfamily.IfeveryfamilyinAmericasignedup,likethesenatorsuggested,ifwouldcostus$5trillionover10years.Itsanemptypromise.Itscalledbaitandswitch.SCHIEFFER:Timesup.BUSH:Thankyou.KERRY:Actually,itsnotanemptypromise.Itsreallyinteresting,becausethepresidentusedthatveryplanasareasonforseniorstoaepthisprescriptiondrugplan.Hesaid,ifitsgoodenoughforthecongremenandsenatorstohavechoice,seniorsoughttohavechoice.Whatwedoiswehavechoice.IchooseBlueCro/BlueShield.Othersenators,othercongremenchooseotherprograms.Butthefactis,weregoingtohelpAmericabeabletobuyintoit.Thosethatcanafforditaregoingtobuyinthemselves.Werenotgivingthisawayfornothing.SCHIEFFER:Allright.SenatorKerry,anewquestion.Letstalkabouteconomicsecurity.Youpledgedduringthelastdebatethatyouwouldnotraisetaxesonthosemakinglethan$200,000ayear.Butthepriceofeverythingisgoingup,andweallknowit.Health-carecosts,asyouaretalkingabout,isskyrocketing,thecostofthewar.Myquestionis,howcanyouoranypresident,whoeveriselectednexttime,keepthatpledgewithoutruingthiscountrydeeperintodebtandpaingonmoreofthebillsthatwereruinguptoourchildren?KERRY:IlltellyouexactlyhowIcandoit:byreitatingwhatPresidentBushtookaway,whichiscalledpayasyougo.Duringthe1990s,wehadpay-as-you-gorules.IfyouweregoingtopasomethingintheCongre,youhadtoshowwhereyouaregoingtopayforitandhow.PresidentBushhastaken-hestheonlypresidentinhistorytodothis.Hesalsotheonlypresidentin72yearstolosejo-1.6millionjolost.Hestheonlypresidenttohaveinesoffamiliesgodownforthelastthreeyeartheonlypresidenttoseeexportsgodowtheonlypresidenttoseethelowestlevelofbusineinvestmentinourcountryasitistoday.Now,Imgoingtoreversethat.Imgoingtochangethat.Weregoingtorestorethefiscaldisciplinewehadinthe1990s.EveryplanthatIhavelaidout-myhealth-careplan,myplanforeducation,myplanforkidstobeabletogetbettercollegeloa-IveshownexactlyhowImgoingtopayforthose.Andwestart-wedontdoitexclusively-butwestartbyrollingbackGeorgeBushsunaffordabletaxcutforthewealthiestpeople,peopleearningmorethan$200,000ayear,andwepa,hopefully,theMcCain-KerryCommiionwhichidentifiedsome$60billionthatwecanget.WeshuttheloopholewhichhasAmericanworkersactuallysuidizingthelooftheirownjob.Theyjustpaedanexpaionofthatloopholeinthelastfewdays:$43billionofgiveaways,includingfavorstotheoilandgasindustryandthepeopleimportingceilingfafromChina.ImgoingtostandupandfightfortheAmericanworker.AndIamgoingtodoitinawaythatsfiscallysound.IshowhowIpayforthehealthcare,howwepayfortheeducation.Ihaveamanufacturingjocredit.Wepayforitbyshuttingthatloopholeoverseas.Weraisethestudentloa.Ipayforitbychangingtherelatiohipwiththebanks.Thispresidenthasneveroncevetoedonebill;thefirstpresidentinahundredyearsnottodothat.SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?BUSH:Well,hisrhetoricdoetmatchhisrecord.Hebeenasenatorfor20years.Hevotedtoincreasetaxes98times.Whentheytriedtoreducetaxes,hevotedagaitthat127times.Hetalksaboutbeingafiscalcoervative,orfiscallysound,buthevotedover-hevoted277timestowaivethebudgetca,whichwouldhavecostthetaxpayers$4.2trillion.HetalksaboutPAYGO.IlltellyouwhatPAYGOmea,whenyoureasenatorfromMaachusetts,whenyoureacolleagueofTedKeedy,paygomea:Youpay,andhegoesaheadandends.Hesproposed$2.2trillionofnewending,andyettheso-calledtaxontherich,whichisalsoataxonmanysmall-busineownersinAmerica,raises$600millionbyouraount-billion,$800billionbyhisaount.Thereisataxgap.Andguewhousuallyendsupfillingthetaxgap?Themiddlecla.Iproposeadetailedbudget,Bob.IsentupmybudgetmantotheCongre,andhesays,hereshowweregoingtoreducethedeficitinhalfbyfiveyears.Itrequirespro-growthpoliciesthatgrowoureconomyandfiscalsanityinthehallsofCongre.SCHIEFFER:Letsgotoanewquestion,Mr.President.Twominutes.Andletscontinueonjo.Youknow,thereareallkindofstatisticsoutthere,butIwanttobringitdowntoanindividual.Mr.President,whatdoyousaytosomeoneinthiscountrywhohaslosthisjobtosomeoneoverseaswhosbeingpaidafractionofwhatthatjobpaidhereintheUnitedStates?BUSH:Idsay,Bob,Ivegotpoliciestocontinuetogrowoureconomyandcreatethejoofthe21stcentury.Andheressomehelpforyoutogogetaneducation.Heressomehelpforyoutogotoamunitycollege.Weveexpandedtradeadjustmentaistance.Wewanttohelppayforyoutogaintheskillsnecearytofillthejoofthe21stcentury.Youknow,theresalotoftalkabouthowtokeeptheeconomygrowing.Wetalkaboutfiscalmatters.ButperhathebestwaytokeepjohereinAmericaandtokeepthiseconomygrowingistomakesureoureducationsystemworks.IwenttoWashingtontosolveproblems.AndIsawaprobleminthepubliceducationsysteminAmerica.Theywerejustshufflingtoomanykidsthroughthesystem,yearafteryear,gradeaftergrade,withoutlearningthebasics.Andsowesaid:Letsraisethestandards.Wereendingmoremoney,butletsraisethestandardsandmeasureearlyandsolveproblemsnow,beforeitstoolate.No,educationishowtohelpthepersonwhoslostajob.Educationishowtomakesurewevegotaworkforcethatsproductiveandpetitive.Gotfourmoreyears,Ivegotmoretodotocontinuetoraisestandards,tocontinuetorewardteachersandschooldistrictsthatareworking,toemphasizemathandscienceintheclarooms,tocontinuetoexpandPellGrantstomakesurethatpeoplehaveanoortunitytostarttheircareerwithacollegediploma.Andsothepersonyoutalkedto,Isay,heressomehelp,heressometradeadjustmentaistancemoneyforyoutogoamunitycollegeinyourneighborhood,amunitycollegewhichisprovidingtheskillsnecearytofillthejoofthe21stcentury.AndthatswhatIwouldsaytothatperson.SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?KERRY:Iwantyoutonoticehowthepresidentswitchedawayfromjoandstartedtalkingabouteducationprincipally.Letmeebackinonemomenttothat,butIwanttoeakforasecond,ifIcan,towhatthepresidentsaidaboutfiscalreoibility.BeinglecturedbythepresidentonfiscalreoibilityisalittlebitlikeTonySopranotalkingtomeaboutlawandorderinthiscountry.(LAUGHTER)Thispresidenthastakena$5.6trillionsurplusandturneditintodeficitsasfarastheeyecansee.Health-carecostsfortheaverageAmericanhavegoneup64percent;tuitiohavegoneup35percent;gasolinepricesup30percent;Medicarepremiumswentup17percentafewdaysago;prescriptiondrugsareup12percentayear.Butguewhat,America?ThewagesofAmericahavegonedown.ThejothatarebeingcreatedinArizonarightnowarepayingabout$13,700lethanthejothatwerelosing.Andthepresidentjustwalksonbythisproblem.Thefactisthathescutjob-trainingmoney.$1billionwascut.Theyonlyaddedalittlebitbackthisyearbecauseitsanelectionyear.TheyvecutthePellGrantsandthePerkiloatohelpkidsbeabletogotocollege.Theyvecutthetrainingmoney.Theyvewoundupnotevenextendingunemploymentbenefitsandnotevenextendinghealthcaretothosepeoplewhoareunemployed.Imgoingtodothosethings,becausethatswhatsrightinAmerica:Helpworkerstotraitionineveryreect.SCHIEFFER:Newquestiontoyou,SenatorKerry,twominutes.Anditsstillonjo.Youknow,manyexpertssaythatapresidentreallydoethavemuchcontroloverjo.Forexample,ifsomeoneinventsamachihatdoestheworkoffivepeople,thatsprogre.Thatsnotthepresidentsfault.SoIaskyou,isitfairtoblametheadministrationentirelyforthisloofjo?KERRY:Idontblamethementirelyforit.Iblamethepresidentforthethingsthepresidentcoulddothathasanimpactonit.Outsourcingisgoingtohaen.Iveacknowledgedthatinunionhallsacrothecountry.Ivehadshopstewardsstandupandsay,Willyoupromisemeyouregoingtostopallthisoutsourcing?AndIvelookedthemintheeyeandIvesaid,No,Icantdothat.WhatIcanpromiseyouisthatIwillmaketheplayingfieldasfairaspoible,thatIwill,foritance,makecertainthatwithreecttothetaxsystemthatyouasaworkerinAmericaarenotsuidizingtheloofyourjob.Today,ifyoureanAmericanbusine,youactuallygetabenefitforgoingoverseas.Yougettodeferyourtaxes.Soifyourelookingatapetitiveworld,yousaytoyourself,Hey,IdobetteroverseasthanIdohereinAmerica.Thatsnotsmart.IdontwantAmericanworkerssuidizingthelooftheirownjob.AndwhenImpresident,weregoingtoshutthatloopholeinananosecondandweregoingtousethatmoneytolowercorporatetaxratesinAmericaforallcorporatio,5percent.Andweregoingtohaveamanufacturingjocreditandajobhiringcreditsoweactuallyhelppeoplebeabletohirehere.Thesecondthingthatwecandoisprovideafairtradeplayingfield.ThispresidentdidntstandupforBoeingwhenAirbuswasviolatinginternationalrulesandsuidies.HediscoveredBoeingduringthecourseofthiscampaignafterIdbeentalkingaboutitformonths.ThefactisthatthepresidenthadanoortunitytostandupandtakeonChinaforcurrencymanipulation.Therearepaniesthatwantedtopetitiontheadministration.Theyweretold:Dontevenbother;werenotgoingtolistentoit.Thefactisthattherehavebeenmarketsshuttousthatwehaventstoodupandfoughtfor.ImgoingtofightforafairtradeplayingfieldfortheAmericanworker.AndIwillfightfortheAmericanworkerjustashardasIfightformyownjob.ThatswhattheAmericanworkerwants.Andifwedothat,wecanhaveanimpact.Plus,weneedfiscaldiscipline.Restorefiscaldiscipline,welldoalotbetter.SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?BUSH:Whew!LetmestartwiththePellGrants.Inhislastlitanyofmitatements.HesaidwecutPellGrants.WeveincreasedPellGrantsbyamillionstudents.Thatsafact.Youknow,hetalkstotheworkers.Letmetalktotheworkers.Youvegotmoremoneyinyourpocketasaresultofthetaxreliefwepaedandheoosed.Ifyouhaveachild,yougota$1,000childcredit.Thatsmoneyinyourpocket.Ifyouremarried,wereducedthemarriagepenalty.Thecodeoughttoencouragemarriage,notdiscouragemarriage.Wecreateda10percentbrackettohelplower-ineAmerica.Afamilyoffourmaking$40,000receivedabout$1,700intaxrelief.Itsyourmoney.Thewaymyoonenttalks,hesaid,Weregoingtoendthegovernmentsmoney.No,wereendingyourmoney.Andwhenyouhavemoremoneyinyourpocket,youreabletobetteraffordthingsyouwant.Ibelievetheroleofgovernmentistostandsidebysidewithourcitizetohelpthemrealizetheirdreams,nottellcitizehowtolivetheirlives.Myoonenttalksaboutfiscalsanity.HisrecordintheUnitedStatesSenatedoesnotmatchhisrhetoric.Hevotedtoincreasetaxes98timesandtobustthebudget277times.SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?KERRY:Bob,anybodycanplaywiththesevotes.Everybodyknowsthat.Ihavesuortedorvotedfortaxcutsover600times.Ibrokewithmypartyinordertobalancethebudget,andRonaldReagansignedintolawthetaxcutthatwevotedfor.IvotedforIRAtaxcuts.Ivotedforsmall-busiaxcuts.ButyouknowwhythePellGrantshavegoneupintheirnumbers?Becausemorepeoplequalifyforthembecausetheydonthavemoney.Buttheyrenot